‘Love Is Blind’ Alum Nick Thompson Is ‘Working Closely’ With SAG-AFTRA Toward Reality TV Union: Here’s What It Could Look Like (Exclusive)

Real Housewives of New York alum Bethenny Frankel has made headlines over the past few months as she's called for a reality TV union. But according to Shab Azma, a talent manager and founder of the reality management firm Arc Collective, the idea of unscripted television getting involved in collective bargaining isn't exactly new.

In fact, she says, the industry has been having conversations about reality stars' residuals and fair payment for a "long time" — discussions about including reality television producers were included in the Writers Guild of America's 2007-08 strike, and Love Is Blind alum Nick Thompson even recently began a foundation with costar Jeremy Hartwell to advocate for the rights of unscripted cast members. But this issue is persisting — as recently as a few years ago, Azma remembers receiving calls from clients who've starred on multiple reality shows, and yet have never been paid for their on-camera work.

"I've had a few of those instances in my career where I've inherited talent that had signed their life away for $0," she exclusively told The Messenger. "Their face is going to be on television potentially forever, and they never got paid for that."

'Why isn't reality TV on strike?'

In July, Frankel first began her quest by asking her over 3 million followers a very simple question, inspired by the ongoing writers guild (WGA) and actors union (SAG-AFTRA) strikes: "Why isn't reality TV on strike?"

"I got paid $7,250 for my first season of reality TV, and people are still watching those episodes," she said in a video posted on Instagram. "During the last writers' strike [in 2007-08], we were providing all of the entertainment, and that's really when the gold rush of reality TV started. I, myself, have generated millions and millions of dollars in advertising and online impressions from reality TV, and I've never made a single residual. Either I'm missing something or we're getting screwed, too."

Since then, Frankel has hired two high-profile attorneys — Bryan Freedman and Mark Geragos, who previously have worked with stars like Vanna White, Chris Harrison and Gabrielle Union, to name a few — to help her "lead the war" against what she has describes as the exploitation of her fellow reality TV peers. In the following weeks, Freedman and Geragos sent a letter to NBCUniversal alleging "grotesque and depraved mistreatment" on their shows; the company has since insisted it's "committed to maintaining a safe and respectful workplace for cast and crew" on all reality shows. Less than three weeks later, an Aug. 20 letter from the lawyers demanded stars be released from "draconian" NDAs.

That same month, the Screen Actors Guild-American Federation of Television and Radio Artists showed their approval for the idea, writing in a statement, "We stand ready to assist." The Messenger has reached out to SAG-AFTRA for comment.

Frankel isn't the only reality star who'd join a union — many of her fellow Real Housewives have shown their support for the call, with RHOA alum Cynthia Bailey pointing out to The Messenger that "our likeness can run on forever and ever."

What would such a reality television union look like, and what provisions would be included in a contract with studios?

A potential roadmap

Azma says her reality TV clients' biggest priorities include residuals, minimum pay scales and benefits like healthcare and pensions. That framework would distinguish between guest or one-episode arcs — for instance, contractors or families who appear on an episode of an HGTV series — and stars who appear in over 20 episodes per season, like members of the Real Housewives franchise. Currently, she says, there aren't any minimums around payment for on-camera work, meaning individual clients must negotiate on a contract-by-contract basis — which can be difficult for those without representation.

"It's that distinction of the moment [people] are asked to be on camera," she said. "A lot of people will waive their rights. But I don't think they're really realizing what they're waiving their rights to do. You might be risking potential jobs, because someone sees you on TV and is like, 'Oh, I don't want to work for that person.' At the very least, you want to know, 'I got paid to do that.'"

The easiest way to get these benefits, Azma reasons, would be to fold reality television performers into SAG-AFTRA — which is something that the union is already considering. In their August statement, the organization clarified that, "SAG-AFTRA is the Union that represents reality performers. Depending on the structure of the production and the performers involved, we can cover these performers under our Network Code Agreement."

Currently, SAG-AFTRA is in negotiations with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP) to reach a deal that concerns economic fairness, viewership-based residuals, acceptable usage of artificial intelligence, and reeling in self-tape auditions with reasonable rules. In the meantime, all actors and many other performers — including some prominent announcers, broadcast journalists, dancers, DJs and recording artists — are on strike.

And it appears as if movement is happening on this front. Thompson exclusively told The Messenger that he's "working closely" with SAG-AFTRA, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and More Perfect Union, who are all helping him create a "roadmap" of how a union for on-screen unscripted talent could even come about. He agrees with Azma that ideally, unscripted performers could be "absorbed" into SAG-AFTRA, since the union already has frameworks for things like pay minimums — but is leaving the logistics of how to do so up to organizing experts.

"It's in [SAG-AFTRA's] interest," he explained. "If [reality stars] are producing more and more content while they're on strike, that will become the norm. There will be less and less acting and even writing opportunities available for the people that are on strike right now."

"And quite frankly," he added, "It would be quite a nice chunk of new members for them."

Thompson — who has been open about his negative experience on Netflix's Love Is Blind, even creating a foundation with castmate Jeremy Hartwell to advocate for mental health care and better working conditions for reality stars — added that he's currently working to classify cast members as employees instead of independent contractors, which means they would get all of the benefits that a typical employee is required to receive under state law.

In fact, Thompson explained that Hartwell's 2022 lawsuit against Love Is Blind production company Kinetic Content — which alleged "inhumane working conditions" and paying cast members below minimum wage — is about getting unscripted stars recognized as employees.

"There are basic labor conditions that we've decided, as a society, that we're going to implement into law so that we can ethically produce and participate in capitalism," he said. "Right now, we just want basic labor laws and breaks and overtime pay — all the stuff that a general SAG-AFTRA actor has."

Currently, Thompson — who has previously worked as an organizer on campaigns for former President Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders — said he's not involved with Frankel's team, and isn't sure how her efforts are organized, since "no union's ever been formed from a lawyer." But he does credit her with raising public awareness on the topic.

'Change is coming'

However, all of these efforts wouldn't include the people behind the scenes, only on-camera unscripted talent. Currently, most unscripted producers work as freelancers and pay for their own healthcare and other benefits; they also individually negotiate for rates, which can result in wage disparity across the board. A producer for a large Netflix unscripted series — who chose to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation — exclusively told The Messenger that he recalled receiving an offer below minimum wage for a different company, which he refused.

The same producer said that he believes the "producer" title is given to unscripted workers so they aren't permitted to join existing unions like the Writers Guild of America or the Directors Guild of America.

"Our positions are given these producer titles as a means to not allowing us to fall under these different umbrellas that are already unionized," he said. "For field producers, they could be DGA because they are directing, they're running cameras, they're running cast, they're running the floor. For associate producers, they could be WGA, because they're script supervisors, they're crafting story. Having these peer groups within already-established and well-known unions would probably be more beneficial and more organized than trying to build [a new union] from the ground up."

Now, Thompson has chatted with over 60 current and former reality stars who would support such an effort for on-camera talent. Since he's already spoken up about his experience, he's currently working on gathering support from those who may not necessarily be ready to go public just yet, and learning from existing unions about how they might work collectively.

But overall, he believes a reality television union will only happen if everyone involved in the medium can put aside their egos — or follower count — and work together.

"Change is coming," he said. "They have no idea."