Jonathan Van Ness Breaks Down in Tears During Tense Trans Rights Debate With Dax Shepard

Jonathan Van Ness broke down in tears during a conversation with Dax Shepard about the overwhelming amount of anti-trans legislation and rhetoric persisting across the country.

Van Ness appeared on Monday's episode of Shepard's Armchair Expert podcast, on which the two began discussing the concept of misinformation and disinformation across the political sphere.

"I don't love how you're framing it right now, which is, 'If the right was educated, they would pick our side,'" Shepard told Van Ness. "I reject that. They are conservative. They don't like how quickly the country is changing. I understand that. I can sympathize with that. They have different fears than we do. It's not because they're dumb or uneducated. They have a difference of opinion."

Van Ness pushed back, saying, "No, I think that misinformation and disinformation plays a huge role in that. Especially when it comes to gender-affirming care and access to abortion."

From there, the Parenthood alum and Queer Eye co-host, who identifies as nonbinary, began a larger discussion about trans youth.

"Some people are very uncomfortable about teenagers transitioning," Shepard said. "They're challenging that. 'How do we know the person isn't going to change their mind?' And then there's another counter-argument, 'Well, if they kill themselves, then that's really f---ing permanent.' That's a good counter-argument."

Van Ness eventually told Shepard, "I feel like I'm talking to my Dad."

While Van Ness addressed the "targeted onslaught towards queer people" being felt nationally at the moment, Shepard insisted he wasn't on the opposing side.

"There are many people targeting queer people, don't want them to have rights," he said. "I agree with you! I don't have those opinions."

However, Shepard remained skeptical and inquisitive about the concept of trans inclusion in sports, which he argued doesn't make him a detractor to the entire cause.

"The thing that I'm bummed about right is that if you wanted to lay out your points where you'd say this would make you supportive of the movement and you laid out 10," Shepard said, "if I'm along for nine of them and not the tenth, you file me in this enemy category?"

Van Ness responded, "I'm not filing you in an enemy category. Have whatever beliefs you want. Go for it. I'm just saying it is disappointing."

"I'm not calling you a transphobe," Van Ness continued. "You cannot be transphobic and still have thoughts that espouse trans misogyny and espouse transphobic ideologies or beliefs and not be transphobic."

At that point, Van Ness became emotional.

"I could cry because I'm so tired of having to fight for little kids because they just want to be included," Van Ness said through tears. "I wish people were as passionate about little kids being able to be included or grow up as they were about fictitious women's fairness in sports. I have to tell you I am very tired."

Shepard understood the gravity of the moment and offered an olive branch, saying, "Sincerely, I did not want you to come in here and challenge your position on any of these things."

He continued, "I'm sure you're disappointed in me."

"I'm not disappointed in you," Van Ness said. "I'm just emotionally exhausted."